Image description: An image of Noah Malone, a Black Paralympic athlete, behind a waterfall-like backdrop at what seems to be a photo shoot set. His arms are crossed, and he gazes at the camera. He wears Team USA track and field running outfit. 

Power is somewhat of a taboo topic for disabled people. Whether you are born with your disability or you acquired it later in life, whether it is visible or invisible, the world makes you feel like you inherently have less power just because of your disability. It will tell you that you lost your power the second you became disabled, no matter the circumstances.

To discuss this complex reality, I met with Anastasia Pagonis and Noah Malone. Pagonis competes in Para swimming in the S11 classification, and Malone competes in Para track and field in the T12 classification. Both are visually impaired Paralympians who competed in the 2020 Tokyo and 2024 Paris Games, and both have eight medals between them – even more if you include World Championships. 

Together, they articulated the reality of power as a disabled person: your power was never something to be reclaimed. It was always yours to begin with. 

Here, we catch up with Pagonis and Malone ahead of their prep for the LA 2028 Paralympics – and talk all about their experiences with power, equity, and what it’s like having natural “asshole repellent” in sports. 

–

Kathryn Smith: One of the main things I’ve noticed in hearing Paralympians and other disabled athletes speak about their experiences is that they often talk about feeling powerless — especially if they have acquired their disability — and then regaining power through doing a sport. Could you talk about that, and if you’ve had similar experiences?

Noah Malone: That’s a really good point. Especially for me, ’cause I lost my vision. I wasn’t born with a disability; I lost it starting at 13 years old.

Anastasia Pagonis: Oh my gosh, twins! Me too!

NM: Oh, really!  Okay, we’ve got that in common then. I started out as what you could call an “able-bodied athlete,” and when I became disabled, I did start to feel like I didn’t have power. I was in middle school at that point, and I just wanted to be included because I was a good athlete, not because I had a disability. 

AP: I totally agree.  It was a similar story for me. I started losing my vision as a “tweenager.” By the time I was 14, I had lost most of it. I always have and still do compete and train with able-bodied athletes, and I feel like what gives me power is kicking able-bodied people’s asses. I’m like, “Yes, bitch!” And then in para, being able to be with people who are just like me with such similar disabilities, there’s something so powerful and so beautiful about that, too. 

NM: I’m glad you brought that up, ‘cause I also compete with able-bodied athletes all year. Honestly, I compete with them more than para. Para is one, two… maybe three meets out of the year. And those are nationals, of course, and then other things here and there.  And that’s what I grew up doing. Even when I was becoming disabled, I didn’t know about parasports until three years later. It definitely does help you feel powerful that when you compete with able-bodied athletes, you’re beating them too. That’s always motivation to keep going.

AP: One-hundred percent. My family and my coaches have never treated me like I have a disability. If you’re not making time, they’re like, “That’s on you, girl!” They’ll kick me out of the pool, and that’s what I love about it. And obviously there are certain accommodations. Like for my classification, I’m in blackout goggles, so I have tappers on each side of the pool, and I need those to be safe. But if you’re not keeping up with the intervals, you’re out.

NM: And I think a lot of para athletes feed off of that, too.

KS: It’s interesting that so many of your meets and competitions happen alongside able-bodied athletes. What is that experience like?

NM: When you’re starting out, your confidence is low competing against able-bodied athletes. Because I’m right in the middle in terms of my visual impairment, it’s almost an invisible disability. Nobody really knows unless I hold my phone super close or do something else that gives it away. When I’m running against able-bodied athletes, they don’t know I can’t see, so they won’t look out for me, and there’s so many other things to worry about instead of just your race. I just wanna show up to a track meet and worry about my race, and obviously, that’s not always the case. But then the more you compete against able-bodied athletes, and you start to actually beat them, it’s like “Okay, maybe I do belong.” 

 AP: I totally agree with that. I went through something similar. In my teenage years, competing against able-bodied athletes, I called losing my vision “asshole repellent.” It got rid of all the really bad people. I was getting bullied and had all these terrible people around me. So I was like, “Okay, bye. Thanks, asshole repellent!”  I also feel like people really walk on eggshells around people with disabilities. I didn’t feel involved, because I felt like everyone had to be so politically correct around me. I hated that.  I was like, “No, I’m just a girl!”

KS: On that same topic, I’m interested to hear about your experiences with equity in competing in para sports. Anastasia, I know you’ve talked a lot about equity with what pools the Paralympians are competing in versus the Olympians in 2028.

AP: I  feel like a lot of people in the Paralympic world are very shunned for speaking up, and I’ve already had my fair share of being shunned, and I’m so fed up with it. And there’s so many equality issues that are not even tackleable. But the Paralympics truly have come so, so far. 

A few games ago, Paralympians weren’t even getting paid for their medals, and now we’re up to the same pay rate as Olympians. But don’t even get me started on the LA pool. The Olympians are competing in the best stadium in the United States, and we’re swimming in an outdoor pool in Long Beach, which just isn’t right. And when it comes to sponsorships, I’ve rejected a lot because they’re paying my Olympic counterparts triple what they offered me. 

NM: Most likely more. Same with me.

AP: I’ve had to reject those, and then I see that someone else from the Paralympics accepted the offer. I feel like if we all stood together and held our ground to get paid what we deserve, maybe we could fix that.

NM: I can empathize with this, ’cause, if our track was somewhere completely different, I guarantee you that the track and field community would be causing an uproar. It’s like you said: the Paralympics and parasports l have come a long way. But it’ll go three steps forward and then one step back. Always does. But I think being able to advocate for what’s right helps. 

We had a situation two years ago for the Paris Games where the Olympic side had this special uniform for when they made the finals.  And it was sick; everyone loved how it looked. We found out a couple weeks after the uniforms were announced that we weren’t gonna get them, and it was just for the Olympians. 

AP: That’s such a spit in the face. It makes me so mad. 

NM: So everyone’s confused, ‘cause it’s just a uniform. How hard is it to get it to us? So we had to go to USATF to make it happen for us too. And thankfully, in track and field we have some big voices: Hunter Woodhall, we’ve got Nick Mayhugh. Tatyana McFadden. We have so many. 

AP: Absolute beasts, all of them.

NM: So finally, with a bunch of backlash, they made a change. But every sport in Para has their version of getting slighted. 

AP: They say “Team USA, we’re all one,” but there’s always something that we’re overlooked for. And it’s so much more than just being a different venue. This is the Paralympics; there are people who cannot control their body temperatures, and we’re competing outside? In LA? In the middle of summer? And, Noah, I don’t know if you have light sensitivity, but there’s a lot of S12s and S13s that have a hard time adjusting to different lighting. 

NM: That’s wild. You know, I didn’t realize until this conversation that it was outdoors. I knew it was a different venue, but I didn’t know it was outdoors.

AP: Yup, it’s outdoors. The USA’s supposed to be the best of the best, and I feel like they’re putting us down by doing that. But hopefully there’ll be some big steps forward after this.

KS: Noah, you mentioned that you feel like the track and field community does support you, and how there would be an uproar if they had to compete in a different venue, but then you also said you had to push USATF to get the same uniforms. I’m curious to hear from both of you — do you feel like Para and Olympic athletes are starting to merge in your sports, or is that still a ways off? 

 NM: The effort is there, at least for track and field. USATF is now combined with para, so last year was the first year we were ever combined with the able-bodied athletes. Which is a big step, because now our national competition is combined with them.

AP: That’s so cool! That’s a huge deal. 

NM: And they don’t just like have us competing either early, early, early before the able-bodied competition, or late, late, late after. They actually have us intertwined with them.

AP: Wait, so how does that work with able-bodied people? 

NM: It’s kinda chaotic, but they really are just combined. For the Para nationals, we’ll compete in our classes. There’s probably 50 races, ’cause there’s so many classes and so many events. And then, we’ll have an open race where it’s mixed classes, and they’ll divide it by speed. They take both the able-bodied structure and the para structure, so it’s like two meets in one. One race you might have Para, the next might be Olympic, and the next Para.

AP: I love that!

NM: Yeah, I think all of us are super happy. We knew it was gonna happen when we realized we were gonna integrate with USATF.  But then to actually see it happen…it’s a huge step forward.

AP: Wow, I have goosies! That makes me so happy.

NM: Do you think that’s something you would want for swimming?

AP: We were already taken over by USA Swimming, but I definitely don’t think a combined nationals is going to happen in my swimming lifetime. There’s a very big separation between Para and Olympic Swimming, even though we’re under one body. As much as I would love to see that happen, I don’t think it’s realistic, unfortunately. 

We do have a new director in USA Swimming, so I hope she can help weave us together and create a healthier environment. And we do have some amazing voices in para swimming. We have Jess Long, who’s an icon. Ally Truitt, who’s doing amazing things and breaking down barriers in the Paralympic world. So there’s definitely some hope. 

KS: Obviously, you’re both Paralympians with vision disabilities, but you also do different sports and have some different experiences. With that in mind, is there a question you’d like to ask each other?

AP: Noah, you have Leber’s, which is central vision, right? You have reverse tunnel vision. 

NM: Yep, exactly. 

AP: So, how do you manage to stay in your running lane with your vision? Also, if you don’t wanna answer, you definitely do not have to. 

NM: I’m an open book, trust me. Honestly, the simplest way to put it is that I have enough vision where I can just straight up see the lanes enough to know where I’m going. Obviously, different colored tracks are easier, and some are more difficult. 

AP: Contrast is probably so helpful. 

NM: Well, that’s funny, ’cause in Paris, the track was a light purple. So imagine a light purple track with white lines. That was a little difficult.

AP: Oh, that’s a little scary! That is so not blind friendly. Again, not thinking of para. 

NM: It looked cool, but the functionality was iffy. And they don’t play — even though we’re para, the rule is if you step on the line twice, you get disqualified. It doesn’t matter if you’re in a visually impaired class or not. 

Compared to the finish line, though, lanes are easy. Sometimes I’ll be near the end, and I’ll see a bunch of other white lines, and I don’t want to stop too early. I’ve done that a couple of times.

AP: Oh my gosh, that’s so scary. 

NM: And in track and field, most races are determined within less than one-tenth of a second. In Paris, my race was determined by one-one-hundredth of a second. You have no room to guess where the line is. It comes with practice, though. Muscle memory. I’ve had my fair share of mistakes, which helps because I trust myself now. 

So, my question for you:  my deterioration from my vision happened over, I wanna say, nine months to a year. But with yours, how fast did it happen? 

AP: So my parents noticed when I was younger that I was really clumsy, which, I mean, I am super clumsy. But more than just a normal child clumsy, so I don’t really know exactly when it all started. But I had a larger vision drop when I was 11 or 12, so it kind of progressed slowly from 11 to 14. It was gradual. And then honestly, it got bad within a few weeks, because I had a very, very big vision drop when I was 14. 

NM: Really? A few weeks? That’s fast. 

AP: I have multiple different diseases. I got blessed in the eye gene department. 

Okay, I’ve got another one for you. What’s the worst thing that’s happened to you as a blindie, like a funny story? 

NM: I don’t know where I was, but I was in a new environment meeting people. There were athletes there, and I was talking to someone new. I was like, “Hey, what event do you do? Blah, blah, blah.” Ten minutes later, I see someone else, and I say, “Let me ask them what they do.”

AP: Stop, was it the same person?

NM: It was the same person. And I don’t get embarrassed by that stuff anymore, but it’s awkward things like that versus big moments. Obviously, slowing down before the finish line at a track meet is up there too, ‘cause that’s embarrassing. What about for you?

AP:  I’ve crashed into the wall while swimming. I’ve dove in and gone into the wrong lane before. That was really, really embarrassing. I felt someone’s foot, and I was like, “I’m not supposed to be swimming with anyone…this is really concerning.” 

I was at a partnership event leading into Paris, and there was an Olympic athlete, and he was trying to see something on his phone, and he was like, “Ugh, I’m blind!” And then he felt so bad that he said that in front of me, and he was like, “Oh my God, I’m so sorry,” And I was like, “Oh my God, is it contagious?” Have you had any moments like that where people feel like they messed up in front of you and then you just joke it off? 

NM: All the time. ‘Cause like you said, people walk on eggshells around anybody who’s disabled, but it’s not even that big of a deal. 

AP: We’re just normal.

NM: Yeah, it’s no big deal. But let me be fair: some para athletes really do get offended. Some people tread lightly with that stuff. But there’s nothing that could really offend me in terms of what you say or how you label something. 

AP: I feel like that’s one positive thing about the para swimming space — we’re all very into dark humor.  There’s a handful of us that aren’t, but mostly, it’s like, “who the fuck left their leg out for the blind person to trip on?” It’s fun when you can all be disabled and have fun together.

NM: Everyone’s different. At the end of the day, if we can all joke about each other, then it’s just a more comfortable space. 

AP: Exactly. That’s why I love the para space. It just feels better.